Syconium
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July 29th, 2016






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66 . by: March 14, 2019, 10:27 am

(spoilers ahoy for any new readers)



Like with page 66, pages 323-334 are making me wonder if it was really Greenie who took out the node, and not Fig doing it unconsciously.
65 . by: April 8, 2018, 3:58 pm

Ugh, I hate the disgusted face he makes when she asks if he wants you see her art. When my girl asks me to do something with her I do it, even if I dont like don't like it, because that makes her happy. I'll watch fashion shows with her and she watches sports with me. Relationships should be equal like that.

She showed interest in the talent he's learned, he should look at her damn paintings.
64 . by: 9times February 24, 2018, 6:43 pm

The comic has been frustratingly vague about him. I feel that's a problem as it confuses the message.

Pretty much the only backstory he's been given is the single sentence he said: "Left for dead, I made myself."
63 . by: Furrama February 24, 2018, 4:11 am

Man, I hope we get a flashback into his past at some point. A lot seems to hinge on his connection to the lightning, and that has to do with how he relates to his past. So far allusions to his past has been to vague for my satisfaction.
62 . by: natoon August 1, 2016, 8:10 am

he was wearing mint leaves earlier...
61 . by: 9times August 1, 2016, 3:15 am

Nah, he's awesome. Albeit pretty insensitive in this scene.

I want to know what his flower is. I think it might have shown up briefly on page 42 (8th panel). At least, that's not a common fig or a strangler fig. It almost looks like a clover.
60 . by: Ñire July 31, 2016, 11:17 pm

Giving this page the comment number 60 = D

I find Greenie to be a very interesting character, and a horrible person. Both are not mutually exclusive ^^
Also, it's especially telling of his personality how angry he gets at her not using the canvas he gave yet, when he very harshly and openly rejected the gift she gave him (to then continue thrashing her talents and passions).

Don't wanna make a long comment, so just gonna say I agree with all those who condemn Greenie's actions.
59 . by: MC July 30, 2016, 11:49 pm

I think it's possible to have a strong interest in your partner's passions, without necessarily having that same (in the case of art) talent.
58 . by: July 30, 2016, 11:10 pm

Panel 14 could also have been where she explained that to him. Submissive types not speaking up and dominant types not listening is a one-way street to disaster.
57 . by: Kaidona July 30, 2016, 10:33 pm

If Streaks at least feigned interest or support in XX's art, she'd likely feel a little less worthless and useless. "You're a good artist, but" isn't enough, because it carries a caveat that defeats the initial remark.

URL : http://kaidona.deviantart.com
56 . by: July 30, 2016, 8:24 pm

It's incredibly hard to have a partner that has no interest in your passions. She must feel so alone as an artist. Can't wait to see her and Acai talk again.
55 . by: MC July 30, 2016, 6:17 pm

If Green took more of an interest in Fig's art, would it make her love him more? If indeed she does love him. This is not a relationship of equals.
54 . by: July 30, 2016, 5:01 pm

He just wanted to show her that he wasn't useless. In a pathetic attempt with his lighting-strike-o-doom.
53 . by: Seven July 30, 2016, 1:58 pm

Maybe Acai is actually the maintenance guy, they just tell him they have another guy so they don't have to pay him.
52 . by: July 30, 2016, 1:31 pm

"Our alembic won't print. You're an artist, right? Can you replace the ink cartridge?"
51 . by: July 30, 2016, 1:19 pm

Is the ever-absent maintenance guy ever *on*?
50 . by: 9times July 30, 2016, 10:37 am

Yeah, back on page 41 it was said that their rents were being raised in order to drive out the riffraff. But I don't think that explains everything. The fact that their rent didn't just go up, but that they were also paid an official visit. And the way their clientele panicked and ran at just a whiff of the authorities. If it's not strictly illegal, then the consequences, even to customers, seem severe enough to make them behave like it is.

And then there are the frequent mentions about how former sex workers are basically dead outside the sex industry. Popular prudishness seems an insufficient explanation when people are literally lining up for brothels, wolves screw in the open and X's doctor prescribes getting some action. It seems like that kind of repression has to come from the top. The fact that the society itself is very status-focused, with everyone's worth being delineated by the fanciness of their wardrobe, and only the most important people having the privilege of a name, also points to a hierarchical society IMO.
49 . by: 48 July 30, 2016, 8:13 am

And I mean in the sense of it being illegal to be a sex worker, there is definitely some disdain toward it from the government, but not to the point of being directly illegal. I think they just expect it to be kept on the down low, but a high traffic brothel in a neighborhood trying to elevate itself is out of the question.
48 . by: July 30, 2016, 8:09 am

I don't think society persecutes sex workers per se, but animal society is still building itself and government is going to be more concerned with achieving elevated status. The government felt that a high traffic brothel would lower the status of the 'neighborhood' after what happened at the place XX is now. Since they likely have no other way to earn credit, they left. Raising rental and property costs is a very common tactic even in our world to keep an area of a certain status and to drive away people that might be seen as 'riffraff'. It's pretentious but it's the way society works. Being that Greenie is himself among the part of society that they're trying to purge from the area, it makes sense that he would be bitter about it.
47 . by: July 30, 2016, 5:41 am

Not if it means eating and being eaten by other animals...
46 . by: Kaidona July 30, 2016, 2:30 am

Wouldn't the experience of homelessness among animals have more survival value?

URL : http://kaidona.deviantart.com
45 . by: 9times July 30, 2016, 12:16 am

@Witticaster, I hadn't noticed that, but now hat you mention it, I think you're right.

@ItPierces, I guess I have been uncharitable to them, but it seems pretty well established that the government persecutes sex workers and that something about that visit changed their minds about coming here. Unless they were recruited by society and given a mission to infiltrate this place, I don't know how else to explain it.
44 . by: ItPierces July 29, 2016, 11:50 pm

9times' arguments rely on applying the principle of charity(see link) to Green while denying it to, say, the government officials. This is actually a violation of that very same principle and, consequently, a logic error.

URL : http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
43 . by: hemlock July 29, 2016, 11:21 pm

I think it's entirely possible, and realistic for someone to acknowledge their privilege whatever it may be, while being oblivious to the pride they have in it, and in turn, the..what's the word, disdain? contempt? dismissal, disapproval? it may inspire them to have in others. and sure, maybe it's unintentional, but it can still be there.
42 . by: Witticaster July 29, 2016, 11:14 pm

In all of his interactions with Scarface, I get the distinct impression that here at the brothel he's trying desperately to present himself as strong and savvy, in a doth protest too much kind of way. I feel like he'd normally be less callous, but he feels like he has to be ruthless around his old boss or he'll get taken advantage of. All of his interactions seem that way to me...
41 . by: 9times July 29, 2016, 10:58 pm

But he acknowledged that he had it easier because he had some connections and times were different then. That's the opposite of bragging.

And he's right: her family was poor already, sometimes homeless. Now it will be even harder for her to survive.

Isn't it normal for him to sympathize with her predicament? I don't see why it needs to be interpreted in any other way.
40 . by: hemlock July 29, 2016, 10:08 pm

For me, and I hesitate to say maybe the majority of commentators here, his rebuttal of "What does she have?" wasn't ahh..a sympathetic question of how she would she be able to survive without their help, that poor kid kind of thing. More of a bootstrappy, "I pulled myself into freedom and had something she doesn't have, so I'm looking down on her decision kind of thing."

Not sure we'd come to some kind of agreement on that without Zack's confirmation, and maybe that defeats the point anyway.

Not wanting her know her father died because she's a kid and would leave and be destroyed by society kind of doesn't hold up when the position she'd be intentionally mislead into staying against her made-obvious already wishes, is you know, prostituition.
39 . by: 9times July 29, 2016, 9:48 pm

He said it would've been better for her if she hadn't got that letter, not better for business. Because she's dead out there. And asking, 'I had a few connections - what does she have?' sounds sympathetic to me, if also controlling. And she is barely an adult.

And the Vice Director has never been in that situation.
38 . by: Kaidona July 29, 2016, 9:35 pm

hahaha shit you took the thought right out of my head, hemlock

URL : http://kaidona.deviantart.com
37 . by: Kaidona July 29, 2016, 9:33 pm

Did Streaks show concern for Plum by saying she should never have received either of the messages about her dad, or was that callousness with basis in how much work she'd have put out if the messages were conveniently lost?

Fig Trees' brother was more distinctly sympathetic of Plum's plight than Streaks appeared to be.

URL : http://kaidona.deviantart.com
36 . by: hemlock July 29, 2016, 9:26 pm

But he...didn't really show sympathy towards Plum? He may have acknowledged that it is difficult to move on from her position due to his own experience, but he also didn't even want to let her know her father had taken a turn and died because it would get in the way of business, not to save her feelings.

Pomelo may be good with numbers, but he even acknowledged that she was the submissive type which apparently meant to him that she would be better at handling an aggressive partner, which kind of makes very little sense unless you're already coming from the perspective of that aggressive partner. Someone got injured and has vanished, and he's written it off as a 'bad call'.

Just to be clear not trying to argue, this stuff is all rather interesting, and we're getting some neat perspectives of our own.
35 . by: Seven July 29, 2016, 9:13 pm

It's fine to like unsavory/less-than-nice characters, I'm a MCU Loki fan myself, it's just when people insist that they're "not really bad, just misunderstood" that things get weird. Greenie isn't misunderstood, he's quite up front about his intentions and motivations, and I see nothing good about them. (up front with everyone except Fig, of course)
34 . by: 9times July 29, 2016, 9:10 pm

Well, the point I'm making isn't that it IS that way. I'm saying it's one explanation. All we know is that they came here after a visit from some government agents, in which there was an implied threat. We're not given a window into their conversation about leaving. But, given that he's shown sympathy for people in Plum's position, and his general criticisms of society, I'm going to assume non-pathological explanations for his behavior.

I really want to know what his name is, and what X did to him, though. Is that ever going to be revealed?
33 . by: July 29, 2016, 8:24 pm

I always love the discussions Zack's work sparks. Some of my favorite discussion since Secretary!
32 . by: hemlock July 29, 2016, 8:13 pm

It's not a bad thing to look for the good in people, but there comes a point when a person's own capability for trust, and the desire for acceptance, the need to to believe in someone especially if it affirms who you think you are can become more dangerous then not.

It's a hallmark of abusive relationships; the thoughts that there must always be a reason for their behavior; their past, their intention, that they didn't truly mean it, that through work they can be changed or saved. And while a reason may well exist, that doesn't mean it's a good thing to subject yourself to poor, or dangerous treatment. You're not being a better person for it. You're just trapped.
31 . by: Witticaster July 29, 2016, 8:11 pm

Juna, totally agreeing with you on all your points. Greenie is fascinating in the way he contrasts with Fig. They're almost polar opposites in their vices: Fig is so deferential to others that she loses her self, and Greenie is so concerned with his own power that he tramples anyone in his way.

9times, I'm not seeing it, but that's okay, half the fun of these comments sections is seeing and discussing all the different viewpoints. Also, you made me realize: it seems that sex work is not illegal in this society, since the officials didn't arrest anyone even after Greenie and the customer blatantly admitted it was a sex operation. That also means the brothel is technically a legal operation. It's just... very socially frowned upon.
30 . by: Watcher July 29, 2016, 7:59 pm

And now XX has no light in her room. I wonder how this will affect her dreams? I've heard that the worst nightmares occur when sleeping in a totally dark room...
29 . by: juna July 29, 2016, 7:46 pm

Also, if there's any bright spot's in green's character, it's that hehas a certain ambition about him. 'People can surprise you with what they're capable of' or however he said it. It makes it more... ironic? When it ends up hurting the people around him. Hard to say ironic at this point when destructiveness and negation is nearly hardcoded into his personality to begin with. He's definitely shaping himself up to be an ideal antagonist to XX. I'm actually really anticipating her break up with him. If there's any single person who personifies her struggle against how society is, it's him more than anybody.
28 . by: 9times July 29, 2016, 7:46 pm

@Furrama, the only action of his I really find blameworthy was outing X. Until we have some explanation of what happened with Pomelo, I'm going to reserve judgment. Pomelo was a smart girl, and her room sentry was supposed to protect her. I wonder if Zack could explain what happened there.
27 . by: July 29, 2016, 7:40 pm

Aren't the alembics based on unseen concepts as well?
26 . by: juna July 29, 2016, 7:30 pm

I find Greenie interesting enough as a character not really because his criticisms about society are particularly striking, but the way his position in it affects his relationship to XX is. He's definitely up there asshole-wise, yet he's also pragmatic and ambitious, parts of which XX rendered in Inquest to Entry. And they've both been struggling against society's attitude towards their work, though they've gone in two increasingly different directions cause of it.

Their relationship's at a real interesting point now, and the stakes of their situation make the recurring weaknesses in it, like greenie's 'not getting it' even more pointed. I feel like they're going to break up and it'll be an explosive moment, if their first argument has anything to show about it. Or maybe it'll fizzle out in this labyrinth and xx has to make a silent break for it. Elope?

But either way, I find their (strained) relationship compelling. A large part because you see how a society with certain repressive sexual norms has pushed them together, in a way.
25 . by: Furrama July 29, 2016, 7:30 pm

@9times I think you're making excuses for his behavior. So far he's done pretty much nothing worth defending. And I disagree - I think she'd be very much better off without him. She might have ended up in prostitution anyway (debatable), but I think she would have either 1. kept her identity a secret or if she still ended up here 2. left by now.

@16 Nail on the head.
24 . by: 9times July 29, 2016, 7:30 pm

@Witticaster

1. This seems to be a very corrupt society in general. It's implied on page 70 that this place is allowed to operate because of 'the connoisseur with the government scent.'
2. Everyone was scared to death of them.
3. What they said to the boyfriend was a mixture of 'you're doing something illegal' and 'we'll overlook this if you give us what we want.'
4. 'Credit's the only thing that matters in this stupid society.'
5. 'You're dead out there.'
6. Her nonrepresentational painting of him on Page 19 seemed to be all about power.
23 . by: Witticaster July 29, 2016, 7:18 pm

9times, Where are you getting the 'corruption' angle from re: the government officials? Or is that just "the only explanation that would vindicate Greenie's actions?" (Also, when did Fig say she thinks he's a good person or that she likes his power trips? I must have missed that.)
22 . by: Shannon July 29, 2016, 7:16 pm

I want her to figure out the alembic....
21 . by: July 29, 2016, 6:55 pm

It's also interesting that she refuses to use the big canvas when she was so desperate for it at first. It seems the shopkeeper's words about sending a message that isn't perfected yet got to her. I'm sure it also echoed her experience with her Syconium painting.
20 . by: hazard July 29, 2016, 6:54 pm

XX:"You put my light out!"
Greenie: "I didn't mean to"

Summary of the situation for sure :(

#5: are you saying he might actually be acting nicely?! Hmm!!

IMO Greenie is acting with what he THINKS are good intentions, but he makes decisions that inadvertently hurt people, and which he can't SEE are hurting people. He has a blind spot for others feelings. His attitude of "I know best" makes him act helpfully, but also makes him deny others agency.
19 . by: 9times July 29, 2016, 6:42 pm

@Furrama, Nobody, Seven, Witticaster:

X thinks he's a good person, and she's pretty perceptive. Yes he understands power, but she seems to like that about him, and in an animal relationship, there's not necessarily anything wrong with that.

A friend gave me some advice years ago, which I've found to be useful in all situations: Whenever someone does something that upsets you, try to imagine the best possible reason they could have for doing it.

Example: Yes, he brought her here, but he didn't want to at first. Even after the offer of being made a partner, and the whole carrot-and-stick approach, he resisted. He only changed his mind when officials started showing up and becoming interested in X.

Applying the method above, I suspect that he resisted because he knew what this place would be like for her, and he changed his mind because he knew the officials would be even worse. It seems that officials can do pretty much anything they want in this society, and have no regard for sex workers. Here, he can control the situation, as long as he stays on top.

Looking back at the social criticisms he's made ('Credit is the only thing that matters in this stupid society,' 'Only power can buy respect,'), it seems evident that he doesn't approve of all the greed and corruption of their society, but it is what it is, and he understands it a lot better than X does. This may change, but right now I think he's in a difficult position, walking a tightrope between a corrupt government and these people. And I don't think X could handle this situation without him.
18 . by: ItPierces July 29, 2016, 6:33 pm

@Nobody — stopping in gave him the chance to make sure she still has no idea about his decisions and gives her the idea that she's in the loop.

Oh! Thank you. That was a very interesting and informative analysis. In gratitude, I would like to formally point out that if you read back through the story a couple of times, it's not hard to get the impression that the ex-prostitute with no job but influence and control had been maintaining his credit lines by blackmailing higher-ups with dirt he picked up while working at the brothel. Blackmail does seem to be one of his major themes.
17 . by: Witticaster July 29, 2016, 6:25 pm

I was looking up articles on manipulation and a lot of them have checklists on "people who are vulnerable to manipulation". See if these sound familiar to anyone:

- "You feel useful and loved only when you can take care of the needs of other people. In fact, you take this so far that you please other people at the expense of your own well-being."
- "You need to have the approval and acceptance of other people. The core problem here is the fear of being rejected or abandoned - and it is so strong that you would do anything to avoid the feelings associated with this fear."
- "You fear expressing negative emotions."
- "You are unable to say no."

And most chilling:

- "You lack a firm sense of your own self."

Interestingly, one of the most effective ways to avoid manipulation when you're accustomed to giving in is to stall for time - "I need more time to think about it" - and then work over the situation in private, when you can think more clearly without the manipulator breathing down your neck. This is exactly what Fig's been doing with the gift canvas.

Greenie sure is transparent about his contempt for her paintings. What an ass.

URL : http://lifeesteem.org/wellness/wellness_manipulation.html
16 . by: July 29, 2016, 6:24 pm

I think the implication has been pretty clear that both of them stay in this relationship because they feel like they have to. XX because she feels responsible for his accident, Greenie because he knows he couldn't really find another girl with the nature of his injury (and presumably his stance in society as a past sex worker?). Their relationship isn't okay or healthy on either end, but XX has really got the short end of the stick. It feels like since she was found out she's constantly been on Greenie's wild ride down the track that will end up god knows where. She could clearly opt out if she wanted to, but she feels she has no other place in society than as a sex worker because her art is greatly frowned upon. She looked happy when she had her own autonomy even if she was lying about her sex work to him, now she frequently looks fairly miserable.
15 . by: Seven July 29, 2016, 5:51 pm

Remember when that friend of Greenie's asked how he could still have XX as a girlfriend, and his answer was "It's all about control." XX's response to the same question was "It's what a good girlfriend does." Says a lot about both of them, she stays because she cares about what happened to him, even if she was in denial about whose fault it was, and he's around because he benefits from the control he has over her. Without her, he's dead. Without him, she's actually better off.
14 . by: Nobody July 29, 2016, 5:10 pm

stating something that isn't true isn't the only way to lie. the title of this page on the xml feed is "in the dark"-- directly referring to the fact that he came here and deliberately did not mention the fact that he was the main cause of both plum and pomelo's departures. i doubt zachary would waste the time to render that final panel with his last remark if it wasn't meant to imply it's significant (ie. a lie). this is called a lie by omission.

stopping in gave him the chance to make sure she still has no idea about his decisions and gives her the idea that she's in the loop.

he directly lied to her on pages 51 and 55.
it's also heavily implied he lied by omission again when they were evicted, as she knew nothing about the brothel's inner workings until they had already made the decision and were almost there, despite the fact that he could have told her at any time.
it's been made perfectly clear he bends the truth and withholds information to manipulate. he has ruined 2 people's lives in the past 10 pages.
not only is her lie about her personal life irrelevant (she doesn't deserve this for telling a lie); it's completely understandable given what we've learned about him.

he's not a good person, and he isn't even an interesting character; "asshole with a sad past" is a trope that's been done to death and beyond. the only thing interesting about him is that he is a surprisingly accurate portrayal of manipulation and abuse.
13 . by: Furrama July 29, 2016, 5:07 pm

Oh yeah, and he talked her into doing things that she didn't want to do using a really messed up logic. "This is what you wanted, right?" The rat?

Not a fan. Cool character, but not a fan.
12 . by: Furrama July 29, 2016, 5:04 pm

@9times He's not a good person though. Anyone who won't even feign interest in the things you love isn't worth your time.

She lied to him about going into the 'business' yes, but he turned around and ratted out where she lived and who she was. He 'took over' her business and the finances without asking and worked her far more than necessary. He knew what kind of place this was and he still had her go, telling her very little while harboring a deep resentment of what happened to him in his past. He doesn't seem to care if the same sorts of things happen to her. He doesn't care what anyone else under him wants or needs or doesn't need, (see Pomello and Plum). He sees people as tools... or prizes. Stepping stones to power, in part because that's how he was treated.

He has been incredibly disloyal and dishonest towards her. Even now he refuses to tell her everything of the situation and often changes the subject off of the real meat. Though Fig/XX is no saint and has made her share of mistakes, Minty Fresh/Greenie is turning into a straight up villain.

Does he love her? To quote him: "What kind of question is that?!"

Does XX love him? I don't think so personally. She did paint his inner self as being powerful, strong, towering, arboreal. And he rejected that painting.
11 . by: 9times July 29, 2016, 4:23 pm

Well, she did do a painting of his inner self, which she seems to like.

And at no point have we ever known him to be disloyal or dishonest toward her.
10 . by: Nobody July 29, 2016, 4:14 pm

i definitely think it's the guilt. xx has never spoken of him so fondly as he has her. when she was asked why she stays with him, she just said it's because leaving him would make her a bad girlfriend, basically.

here's to hoping fox boy has some nice takes on her art!
9 . by: Furrama July 29, 2016, 4:03 pm

Minty Fresh is playing her like a yo-yo. She seems smarter than this though, is she letting him?

I wish I knew what drew her to him in the first place, and if the guilt about the accident is the only thing keeping her here now.
8 . by: July 29, 2016, 3:55 pm

Really side-eyeing the people who argued that Greenie is actually a good person in these comments because it was very clear from the start that he absolutely wasn't. :P
7 . by: July 29, 2016, 3:40 pm

*think she'll use the huge canvas near the end, and for what will probably be the most important/meaningful of her paintings.
6 . by: Ñire July 29, 2016, 3:37 pm

Ugh, Greenie's face of disgust when she offers showing him her paintings...

Interestingly enough, at first I also assumed he just came to say Hi/casually check on her, but the fact it's been brought up (implying that it's one of the very few, if not the very first time he pays her a visit), makes me think he might be there for some specific check in.

Also, great to see Acai is gonna show up again. Been wanting to see more of his interactions with Fig ^^

I think she'll use the huge canvas ne

URL : http://nothofagus-obliqua.deviantart.com
5 . by: 9times July 29, 2016, 3:34 pm

But a lot about this does seem strange. Shouldn't she have been upset if she hadn't seen him since they arrived? And why hasn't she? He called her his other half.

And what's the real reason for showing up now? The maintenance guy is conveniently off today. Did he just come to give Acai a reason to be there?
4 . by: 9times July 29, 2016, 2:54 pm

Interesting about it being powered by his past.

So far, he's been more critical of their society and how it works than anyone else in this story. He does seem like the 10% type.
3 . by: July 29, 2016, 2:39 pm

Jeez, poor Fig. Even now he's still awful to her about her artwork. I can't wait to see her and Acai interact again, she desperately needs someone that can understand and appreciate her talent.
2 . by: Seven July 29, 2016, 2:33 pm

Ohhh he only wants her to use the big canvas to boost his own ego? My opinion just hit the earth's core...
1 . by: July 29, 2016, 2:23 pm

Yes, please do get the fox in here, Greenie. He'd be better company!